Cameron’s anecdotal black man doesn’t back migrant cap

David Cameron met a black man recently. Much mirth has been caused by his ridiculous statement that his anecdotal black man joined the Army at 10.

Of course he didn’t and according to This is Plymouth the man referred to was Neal Forde, aged 51 who served in the navy for six rather than 30 years.

But embarrassingly for Cameron, it appears that his idea for a cap migrants is not backed up by Mr Forde.

Mr Cameron said Neal Forde said “I’m so ashamed that we’ve had this out-of-control system with people abusing it so badly” and claims that Mr Forde backs his plans for a cap on migraiton.

But This is Plymouth has reported that Mr Forde has very different views to those ascribed to him.

In reality Mr Forde said none of the parties had the right answers on immigration. “Britain needs immigrants. It’s a rich and diverse country with a heritage to be proud of.”

That doesn’t sound an awful lot like what Cameron said.

In the piece in This is Plymouth, Mr Forde expressed concern over migration and crime, but rather than stick to the facts, Cameron has embellished his position and embarrassed himself, again.

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Crossposted from Left Outside. Hat tip to James Graham.

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17 thoughts on “Cameron’s anecdotal black man doesn’t back migrant cap

  1. Er… you left off the rest of the quote:

    He added: “Britain needs immigrants. It’s a rich and diverse country with a heritage to be proud of, but what I find unacceptable is that the politicians seem to care more about everybody else and forget the British people.

    “What I want the politicians to tell me is what they are going to do to safeguard the British people from the immigrants who come here and commit serious crimes.”

    Now who’s playing fast and loose with the truth?

    1. But I wrote this: “In the piece in This is Plymouth, Mr Forde expressed concern over migration and crime, but rather than stick to the facts, Cameron has embellished his position and embarrassed himself, again.”

      Which is hardly me glossing over what else Mr Forde said, but keeping the post short and to the point. I’ve also linked to my evidence, so you can make you own mind up.

      While I’ve abbreviated, I’ve certainly not played as fast nor as loose as Mr Cameron has.

      I think Mr Forde is wrong, but what he’s expressed is certainly not an uncommon view.

  2. Saw it in the gurdian today as well- most stupid by the cam, and wasn’t it a stupid way to make a point anyway- fail

    1. There once was a black man from Plymouth
      Who’s youthful seafaring caused a grimace
      His opinions were bandied about
      So to the contrary he gave a shout
      and it all left Cameron looking the dimmest

  3. "Britain needs immigrants. It’s a rich and diverse country with a heritage to be proud of."

    Such statements, and they are not original, do not make sense. If we are so proud of this heritage, why are we seeking to change it? British culture has changed beyond recognition since he came over here, and even he doesn't pretend that is a good thing. 

    Also, 'rich and diverse', they don't really go hand in hand, what is rich about diversity? The only correlation that I can see is that the rich get richer with diversity, as they have a new underclass to exploit. There is nothing good about diversity, the clue is in the name, it breeds a divisive society. Too much diversity leads to too little common ground and lots of community conflict and misunderstanding and people like Brown have been frantically trying to use Britishness as something we all have in common. No one knows what Britishness means anymore, because the culture that created it has all but vanished. 

    But Cameron wasn't wrong, if this person was even the person that he was talking about:

    "In the past eight years, we have had a lot of other black people coming in and destroying everything we've built up."

    "Britain is a great country. What I want the politicians to tell me is what they are going to do to safeguard the British people from the immigrants who come here and commit serious crimes."

    The irony is, 50 years ago white Britons were saying the same thing, back then, they were racist. The fact is that immigration is portrayed as this wonderful ideal, that will make Britain a better place, but those on the receiving end of it find the reality somewhat different, regardless of their colour. 

    1. This illustrates the gulf in mindsets perfectly between someone like you and people who are tolerant and of a more positive persuasion.

      It makes perfect sense if you can accept that the UK has long been influenced and made better by immigration since its very inception and if you can also grasp that cultural change is as old as time and that culture is not concrete but shifting.

      You also have semantic hang-ups with the term rich and diverse because to you clearly, it is to be rich and mono-cultural, even though the UK has never been mono-cultural and that for you, any movement from what you know is dangerous.

      To you diversity is a pejorative and nothing will change that, I do pity you, that you feel that way, that you have no knowledge of the numerous diverse communities across the UK that exist and go about their business.

      It does not surprise me that you are ensconced in Notts, a place with little diversity, but feel this strongly about abstracts that you buy into to fit your prejudice.

      The reason diversity doesn’t work in your mind is because you do not like it, you cannot make it work because, for whatever reason, socially, intellectually, you are unable but do not think that we are all so useless as to not master something as intrinsically human as interaction and community building.

      And you do know that the majority of crimes carried out in this fine nation are not done by immigrants but by…SHOCK HORROR…indigenous people!

      You’re an anachronism, small and closed minded an because you can’t get it, you presume no one can. Thankfully, you’re in a minority.

      1. This illustrates the gulf in mindsets perfectly between someone like you and people who are tolerant and of a more positive persuasion.

        Of course, to you it is all generalisations and black and white. You are either tolerant, or intolerant. I should point out that those quotes were from Cameron's anecdotal black man.

        …cultural change is as old as time and that culture is not concrete but shifting.

        Of course, but you are confusing evolution with wholesale replacement with other cultures. British culture as it was is not evolving, it is being abandoned. The largest cultural shift that has ever happened in Britain has taken place over the past few decades, never in history has much changed so quickly. History has demonstrated that such swift cultural changes rarely end well. 

        even though the UK has never been mono-cultural

        But it has. Sure there may have been other cultures present, but by and large the culture was the same. Anyone anywhere in the country could knock and their neighbours door and have a conversation about shared values, not so now. What we have now is divided communities, not just by language but religion, ideals, and even colour. When these communities become divided they fall back onto their own culture and further isolate themselves. 

        you have no knowledge of the numerous diverse communities across the UK that exist and go about their business.

        But I do, I also lived in Perry Bar in Birmingham for several years, one of the poorest and most diverse areas of Britain. I have seen the 'community' going about their business daily, so I can speak of my experiences first hand. I can assure you there was nothing 'tolerant' about the Saddam Hussein Mosque and its environs. 

        It does not surprise me that you are ensconced in Notts, a place with little diversity,

        Clearly it has been a while since you have visited Nottingham, or at least the poorer parts. Nottingham is now a city where even the immigrants complain about the immigrants and are sacked for it. Certain areas are now completely mono-cultural, regardless of who lives there.  As I said, I have seen what several years of diversity and multiculturalism has done to parts of Birmingham, now the same cultural pockets and divided communities are appearing in Nottingham. This particular area is also where a school Christmas play was cancelled, due to pressure from one section of the community, so that it could be replaced with a celebration of Eid. I know that area well, or at least I used to. 

        That is not British culture evolving into another culture, that is the wholesale replacement of one culture with a foreign, alien culture. 

        The reason diversity doesn’t work in your mind is because you do not like it,

        Then kindly enlighten me, precisely what are the benefits of diversity and to whom is multiculturalism most beneficial? 

        intrinsically human as interaction and community building

        But that is precisely my point. Diversity and multiculturalism are the very antithesis of interaction and community building. As a nation we have never been so diverse and multi-cultural, and yet as a nation we have never been so divided, broken and lacking in a sense of community. 

        And you do know that the majority of crimes carried out in this fine nation are not done by immigrants but by…SHOCK HORROR…indigenous people!

        Obviously seeing as 92% of people living here, were born here. But that 8% of immigrants are still accounting for 25% of all prisoners currently residing in UK prisons, and 20% of all murderers, highly disproportionate. Also demonstrating that the indigenous culture, far from being inferior and in need of replacing or updating, is actually quite a good and fair one, with a relatively low crime rate. 

        1. Here we go…

          Look, I’ve learnt many things in my time and one of them is, it is pointless debating a racist, utterly pointless and it either drags on forever or ends in name calling.

          I could go through your comment and do a point by point rebuttal and then in turn you would do the same and so on and so forth.

          All to no effect. All a waste of my time.

          We’ve both outlined our views here, although I still find it odd why you come to a place you disagree with…but still.

          1. I could go through your comment and do a point by point rebuttal and then in turn you would do the same and so on and so forth.

            I know what you mean. Replying took me far longer than I thought it would, but then I have never been one for brevity.

            I still find it odd why you come to a place you disagree with…

            I make it a point to seek out opinions that differ from my own, after all how can you be sure that your own views are right, justified or even factual unless you’ve heard both sides of opinion? It may seem like pointless debating, and usually it is, but if we are not forced to listen to the opinions of others and re-evaluate our own opinions, we become insular and narrow minded. Discourse with anyone is always worthwhile, if not always fruitful.

            One last point however, I don’t think that you realise how bad things have become in the job market, I have worked with unemployed young people, in Nottingham and elsewhere, and although an extreme example, the frustration and despair felt by this young lady, may be far more prevalent amongst those without qualifications, but is now also affecting those with qualifications.

  4. Missed off the ‘Britain Needs Immigrants’ part.

    We don’t need immigrants. We have 2.5 million unemployed, most of them young, white males who are leaving school with little or no qualifications, and are unable to find any kind of meaningful full time employment and are leading miserable lives. We are paying benefits to these unemployed whilst at the same time paying immigrants to work here, and much of their income goes home. You do not have to be a mathematician to see that the sums don’t add up. That is kind of like taking out a massive loan, when your savings would have easily covered it.

    1. As someone who working in Notts, London, Kent, Manchester and Essex with unemployed young people I have to put you straight on this myth.

      If you actually think that economic migrants and our young unemployed are competing for the same work, you are sadly mistaken. This is a false equation in order to bring the racist out in people: immigrants stealing young Brits jobs.

      The truth is hidden in your own words when you mention leaving school with little or no qualifications.

      This is the reason they are not working.

      In tough economic times the job market gets competitive, young people with poor qualifications (who always found it hard BTW) are going to find it even harder. Add to this that a tough job market induces more young people to stay on in education, taking the places on courses that these hard to help young people would normally have been placed on.

      These young people were always in low paid, low skilled jobs (that is if you could get them to demean themselves by taking them) and the economic migrants that come to the UK bring skills, they have to, otherwise they don’t get in.

      And I also see you use the word white, does colour of skin matter you that much?

      1. You’re an anachronism, small and closed minded an because you can’t get it, you presume no one can.

        No one can. I have never met anyone who can explain to me precisely what the benefits of multiculturalism are, nor why diversity is a good thing in a single nation.

        I have had many discussions about culture with many different immigrants all over Britain over the years, be they first, second or third generation, and they all pretty much agreed on several points. They nearly all believed that Britain was a nation devoid of culture or was in need of it from them, that Britons were somehow lacking anything worthwhile culturally and were a weak, bankrupt people. None ever said that they moved here for our great culture or the people, more likely they would state that they moved here to bring their culture, or because their culture was already strong here. No matter how many times I pointed out that they couldn't see British culture because they were standing on it, they invariably replied that all they could see was their own culture. That is modern Britain lots of isolated pockets of mono-cultural communities. 

        If you actually think that economic migrants and our young unemployed are competing for the same work, you are sadly mistaken

        Well of course they are. If someone is unemployed they are competing with everyone else who is unemployed for every job. I understand your point however, but that too is part of the problem. Our education system is failing because of ridiculous expectations drilled into youngsters about what they can achieve. But that does not make it right to bus in immigrants to fill vacancies when thousands of young people are on benefits. At the end of the day it is simple logic, if 1million immigrants find work in Britain, that is 1million jobs that British unemployed won't be able to get, yet the British taxpayer will still have to pay for. Saying that we can get foreigners to do the work instead and for cheaper is no excuse for leaving 2.5 million people languishing on the dole. 

        The truth is hidden in your own words when you mention leaving school with little or no qualifications.

        What? Are you seriously saying that the reason that immigrants get jobs is because they are better qualified? The Nigerian Iqbo tribesman, travels across Europe to reach Britain despite not speaking the language, and somehow he is better qualified that 2.5 million indigenous, native English speakers and products of the British school system? Are you mad? Or are you seriously one of those naive types that believe that most immigrants are coming here due to a skilled labour shortage? That we actually need them to fulfil roles that British people are unable or unwilling to fill? 

        It's rubbish most immigrants are economic migrants, and only a tiny minority have any qualifications and even less have skills we need in Britain. They get jobs because they are cheap, naive and don't know their rights. The skills shortage is hyperbole, perpetuated by industries desperate to cut costs to compete with the likes of China and India. 

        We've had a whole generation of young people that have been abandoned in Britain's 'modern and dynamic' employment sector, and the problem is only going to get worse. 

        If young people really are lacking in skills needed to find gainful employment within Britain, then that is the fault of the Education System, and it is certainly not going to be solved, nor even helped, by bringing in people from outside of Britain to ensure that such people never find work. Worse, research has shown that such predicaments tend to be hereditary and generations will therefore end up in the same trap. But everything is hunky dory with you as long as we can get someone in, from somewhere,  to clean your toilet and mow your lawn?

        And I also see you use the word white, does colour of skin matter you that much?

        Yes. I was equally concerned when young black males were the worst performing ethnic group in British schools and now it is poor, white boys I don't see any reason to believe that it is less important. Indeed there are more of them so if anything it is a bigger issue.  

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